Talk:2014 (production)
Removed I have removed the following entries. We do not need to note every single airing of every single episode in every single country - the site would be overloaded by them. The only ones we should mention are the premier airings of each episode, or a particularly notable airing (first airing of the series in that country, etc.). We certainly do not need in-depth discussion of those airings (channels and their histories, times, language), or the trivial mention that another country has not aired them! (I have also removed a similar entry from , and the entries on the relevant dates) -- Michael Warren | ''Talk'' 19:09, May 3, 2014 (UTC) * 5 April - The season 1 finale of -remastered, is broadcast on television in Flanders, the Dutch-speaking part of Belgium. The episode was aired twice on state channel Canvas (formerly BRT 2) in the morning time slot 10.20-11.05 AM and the sub-prime time slot 18.21-19.05 PM. As usual in Flanders, the episodes are not dubbed, but subtitled and, as a state channel, without commercial breaks. Belgium's northern Dutch speaking neighbor, The Netherlands, has never aired the series, remastered or otherwise. * 12 April - The season 2 opening episode of -remastered, is broadcast on television in Flanders, the Dutch-speaking part of Belgium. The episode was aired twice on state channel Canvas (formerly BRT 2) in the morning time slot 10.20-11.05 AM and the sub-prime time slot 18.21-19.05 PM. As usual in Flanders, the episodes are not dubbed, but subtitled and, as a state channel, without commercial breaks. Canvas observed the usual broadcast order of the episodes of the season. :While I do agree on this argument, I'm in disagreement on the general argumentation of the removal. I'm not opposed to not having each and every one episode listed (thereby limiting myself to season's beginnings and endings) though it should be noted that Belgium is one of the relatively few nations that has actually aired the remastered episodes. Following the overloading argument, then each and every single birth and death date should be deleted as well, once accepting the, IMHO invalid, argument...--Sennim (talk) 19:24, May 3, 2014 (UTC) (edit conflict) I'm sorry, but I'm having a hard time with the first part of your reply - you agree with the argument, but disagree with the argument? Of course every single birth and death date should not be deleted - that is not remotely the same as what I was saying. Every person has only one birth and/or death date listed, do they not? Therefore, every episode should have only one air date listed, except where there is encyclopaedic value in additional entries. That aside, the level of detail in these entries is not appropriate for a date or yearly productions page. The information about what time it was shown does not tell the reader anything useful, unless there is something unusual about it (which the wording suggests not); what the channel used to be called, the use of dubbing or subtitles, the lack of commercial breaks, and the fact (if verifiable) that the Netherlands has never broadcast the series, are not relevant to an entry that something was broadcast on a particular day. The entry should be "TNG-R Season 2 begins broadcasting in Belgium" at most. Considering that Belgium is an extremely minor market for Star Trek, I don't feel even that should be present. For my part, I don't think listing even the UK airings of the remastered episodes would be appropriate, and that's pretty much the second-biggest market for Trek after the US (maybe Germany runs it close) - a single, brief mention of when they first started airing, possibly, but not the start and end of every season, even if Syfy does make a big deal out of each new remastered season starting. Also, you should not have restored these entries until consensus for their inclusion was reached - that is not correct editing etiquette. Please note that when you made the entry in 5 April, you also changed the formatting on a different entry away from the standard, which I had fixed, but you have now reverted again. -- Michael Warren | ''Talk'' 20:47, May 3, 2014 (UTC) (I am going to bed now, and will not see any reply until tomorrow at the earliest) :(edit conflict) Thank you for replying (and apologies if I've messed up any format issues), though I think you've misinterpreted my intent. While I suspect that I've not followed proper etiquette, I also think proper etiquette was not followed in removing my edits. Anyway, it seems we are of different opinion as far as this this particular case is concerned. I take exception to your statement "that Belgium is an extremely minor market for Star Trek", it comes across (no doubt unintentionally) as diminutive, xenophobic and uncalled for. Furthermore as far as the official franchise is concerned, it is of far more importance than the birth and death dates of cast and staffers who had contributed to the franchise on a "blue Monday", so to speak (ie, the franchise earning money, even from the "minor" Belgiums). From the franchise's point of view Belgium is far more important than them, whether we like it or not, and thus, by proxy, their inclusion on MA is warranted, as far as I can interpret. Yes, I do agree that all the broadcast dates are something of a pain, but it is official Star Trek data and therefore each and everyone is liable for inclusion on MA (and yeah, I agree that comments like "what the channel used to be called, the use of dubbing or subtitles, the lack of commercial breaks, and the fact (if verifiable I know , I was born and live there) that the Netherlands has never broadcast the series, are not relevant to an entry that something was broadcast on a particular day" should be restricted to the first episode as aired), the encyclopedic site it is. However, as we seem to have stumbled upon a fundamental question, I suggest we take this matter to the MA community at large, for them to decide..--Sennim (talk) 21:47, May 3, 2014 (UTC) I apologise if that came across that way. However, being accused of xenophobia is a very serious accusation, and one I find deeply offensive. Such remarks do not aid in encouraging discussion. It seems you also completely ignored the comment that followed, where I did not think my own country's airings of the episodes were relevant for an entry. Once again, comparing episode re-airings with people's birth and death dates is a false equivalence - the two are not the same. And trying to weigh up people's "worth" to the franchise diminishes the accomplishments of hard-working people, and is not a useful way to assess whether the data point is of benefit to the readers of the site. That's what this boils down to, in my view. I do not feel that these particular entries provide such benefit - you clearly do. Certainly, more views would be helpful, and that will be down to people who wish to participate. In any event, lots of these 'drawing the line' discussions happen on individual article talk pages, and only need breaking out if they affect a large number of pages. My focus is on these specific entries, and I don't think it is quite at the point of a fundamental site policy discussion. It is standard practice when someone feels something is not suitable for an article to remove it to the talk page, and invite discussion on its re-inclusion. I'm sure you've seen it lots of times here. -- Michael Warren | ''Talk'' 18:58, May 4, 2014 (UTC) :Apologies, if repartee as formulated came aross too crassly, intent was not offending, but conveying the sense that statement as formulated might be perceived as hurtful. Anyway, I concur that more input views are warranted, actually that was what I was aiming for in the first place, I'd nothing in mind as grandiose as policy or guideline adjustment discussions..--Sennim (talk) 09:54, May 6, 2014 (UTC) I removed the two entries again. This was done when the discussion was started and they should not be in the article until this is solved here. * 5 April - The season 1 finale of -remastered, is broadcast on television in Flanders, the Dutch-speaking part of Belgium. The episode was aired twice on state channel Canvas (formerly BRT 2) in the morning time slot 10.20-11.05 AM and the sub-prime time slot 18.21-19.05 PM. As usual in Flanders, the episodes are not dubbed, but subtitled and, as a state channel, without commercial breaks. Belgium's northern Dutch speaking neighbor, The Netherlands, has never aired the series, remastered or otherwise. * 12 April - The season 2 opening episode of -remastered, is broadcast on television in Flanders, the Dutch-speaking part of Belgium. The episode was aired twice on state channel Canvas (formerly BRT 2) in the morning time slot 10.20-11.05 AM and the sub-prime time slot 18.21-19.05 PM. As usual in Flanders, the episodes are not dubbed, but subtitled and, as a state channel, without commercial breaks. Canvas observed the usual broadcast order of the episodes of the season. In my opinion it does not belong to the article in that way (time of airing, neighbor countries) and I can only agree with User:DarkHorizon. Tom (talk) 09:59, May 10, 2014 (UTC)